Of course it make a difference.  Of course they could put it to good use.  They could use that money to establish a higher standard of living for their family.  Absolutely.

Jythier, how much do you think it takes to feed and clothe and shelter a family of, say, 4?  Minimum requirement, most basic?

Yes, most of us (even those who are considered "poor") have a decent standard of living and could make sacrifices.  That's not true for EVERYONE, and I think it's callous to judge families who can't afford to give.  It's not up to you to decide what standard of living is appropriate for them, but there are some people out there who are genuinely and literally using ALL their income to live. 

I guess if you can spare a buck for a treat for your kids now and then, you should give that to God instead. 

Who?

It's always been my understanding that the more ya put in the plate the more ya could sin. Heh, so that means I can't do a whole lotta sinning if I just fork over ten percent of the pathetic I make....

  This isn't true.  I do believe in God.  I also KNOW that God doesn't always provide.  There are millions of people starving and suffering in this world that believe in God.  You have to be able to see that. 

  I don't think most but I do think that some are.  I do have a problem with the "celebrity" TV preachers who live extravagant lifestyles financed by some people who really can't afford to give. 

  I suppose its true that's true of some people but not all. 

You see the difference is that you didn't ask this person for help.  They knew you had a need and offered freely.  It's different to ASK someone. 

  Exactly.  I think the concept of handing over money you need to pay bills over to the church and then going to the church for assistance is silly.  Yes, most of us DO have discretionary money that we can spend as we choose but there are some people who need every penny to live. 

First of all you must remember what the church is there for.  The church is for our benefit.  There are two reasons why God instituted the church.  First and foremost is for corporate worship. That is the body coming together and worshipping God as a whole on a regular basis.

Second it's to encourage and help one another.  We are supposed to, as the body of Christ to help one another.  In scripture the church is likened to a physical body.  We have hands, feet, eyes, arms, legs etc.  When one part of the body hurts the whole body is affected.  We are supposed to care for the hurting member and it's done for the glory of God who is the head of the body. 

When we give in faith, during those lean times is when we really can see God at work.  Oh it's much easier to give to God during the time of plenty but it's during those very hard times we see God up close and personal and it teaches us to rely on him and not ourselves. 

So Loca, if you find yourself struggling, yes you should go to your Pastor and tell him you need help.  He will help you and direct you.  

In our church back home we have boxes upon boxes of free produce that we get from the local store once a week and bread products twice a week.  We have a volunteer who goes and loads up his truck from the grocery store and then the church is open on that day for its members and their neighbors to come and pick to their hearts content.  This has been a tremendous help to everyone in the church.  I miss that.  I never had to buy any produce.....potatoes, salad mixes, greens, fruit, tomatoes (boxes and boxes) beef stew starters, garlic, onions, celery, etc.  You name it we got it.  All free.  Same with bread and bakery pastries.  My grocery bill was slashed in half and I would take a full box for my neighbor and her two boys. 

Do you think you could start a program like this in your church? 

I am not going to comment much on tithing amounts.  That is something between a single person and God.  I KNOW when God wants me to give (outside of regular giving), because he doesn't leave me alone...hahah.  But I also know the body of Christ, keeping it in the black, helping it, is important.  Administrators are people too!  hehehehe.

Anyway, Loca don't lose hope.  God does hear you...and even tho you may not see the answer....an answer/ or even just a respite is CERTAINLY on the way.  Don't stop pouring out your every woe to Him, so he can specifically answer each one, so there will be no doubt He hears you. 

I will say this too...I have traveled all over this globe, either living or on vacation, and can honestly say I've never seen Christians starving because there were no available resources.  Christians band together and share, it is the very NATURE of the faith.  Jesus is essentially sharing his blood with us, covering us in His righteousness so we can see the kingdom of heaven.  Without it, we'd never get in.

Now, notice I said "because there were no available resources."  I have seen Christians who have issues with pride, with anger, resentment, etc that won't take/accept help.  But its not because it's not there.

 

 

 

I give what I can, depending on what I have in my pocket at the moment and what I can spare. To me, as much as I believe in God, I believe a treat for my kids once in a while is very important, even if it means I don't have that dollar or 2 to give to the church on Sunday when I attend. I don't believe God will hold a grudge or punish me for using that dollar on my children rather than helping pay for the light bill at a church. I refuse to believe that. I am not worried about being specific or even coming close to giving 10% of my earnings to a church. If God thinks I am wrong, then so be it., Like TW mentioned, some of us actually depend on 100% of our income, even if it's just for Kids meal at McDonalds, a candy bar at the corner store or an extra gallon of gas.

If you don't believe God provides, then don't give when you don't have excess.  That would absolutely be negligent to your family.

However, since I do believe God will provide for me, as He always has in the past, I will tithe no matter how much I make, unless it's less than $9 because then my tithe is $0.

Am I a better Christian because of it?  NO!  Just one who believes in tithing.  I think I'm right, but does it matter what I think is right?  Only to me.  It's between me and God, right?

But what I'm not above is trying to convince others that God will provide for them, as it says in the scriptures.

But I will never agree with Boudica, because she comes from an entirely different stance on the Bible, and Jesus, and Christianity in general.  I disagree with KFC on this one issue, but I know that most of our beliefs are very close... so I'm curious if my church (and therefore me) isn't in the wrong on this issue.  I will still give the 10% to the church though, even if that's not necessarily where the giving has to go Biblically speaking.  I feel personally led to do so. My church does define tithing as strictly the 10% given to the local church.

Hey accountant, 10% of 9 bucks is 90 cents.  Do you have to tithe in whole dollar amounts? 

No, but I feel led to.

 

if your church is dogmatically teaching you NEED to give 10% they are wrong.  Ask them to show you where in scripture this tithing is given to the church.  Like I said, if you want to get technical then we are to give 100% given the two examples by Christ himself. 

My pastor here recently went on a rabbit trail while delivering a sermon and it involved tithing.  I emailed him and questioned him further asking him to show me where Christians are to tithe.  In his sermon he quoted Malachi. 

He wrote back agreeing that tithing is not a NT concept and that if we examined the OT we would see about a 23.5% giving in all the Jews were to give back to God.   He admitted he didn't really want to broach that subject but got off and it wasn't part of his original sermon.  He, as well, as I believe 10% is a good amount or a good start even but we must be careful that we don't dogmatically assert this is set down in cement.  In fact, if anything it threatens to limit our giving thinking we're ok with 10% when God may, in fact, be calling us to give more like the widow or rich young ruler. 

 

 

Always have been.  I like to say that when I find out where Physics and Philosophy intersect, I'm going to build my house there.

 

I'm going to take another tack here.  Someone mentioned "giving money to God" and this is the problem I have.  If I send money to someone directly in need, is that giving money to God?  Not according to the churches.  The only thing that qualifies as "giving money to God" in the context of tithing is "giving money to the church."

 

And objectively, regardless of what many people claim to "know," you can't give money to God.  You can give it to a person who claims to represent God, but you can't give it to God.  He has no bank account or routing number, and if you COULD give money to God, wouldn't he likely say "Why are you giving me this?  What am I gonna do?  Trick out my angels with those new Holy9000 Wings they've all had their eyes on?  Maybe some platinum halos?

 

God doesn't need money.  People do.  But instead of the religious just saying "Hey, the other humans on this planet need money, so give it to us and we'll decide who gets it and what the best use for it is," they invoke the name of someone they think will have a greater effect on making the moneychange take place.  "Hey...GOD needs your money."  And why don't they say that?  because put that way, everyone would say "Wait a second...I can decide who needs this just as well as you can...why do I need us to waste TWO stamps on this transaction?  I'll just take the address that YOU would put on the envelope and put it on my own envelope.  That saves work for the mail carriers too.  They don't have to deliver the same envelope twice to get the job done. 

 

When someone invokes God's name in order to extract money from people, it's a direct step down the Highway of Guilt, and that is ALL it is and ALL it accomplishes.  If you don't give, you're letting God down.  BS.

Ock -- utter brilliance, as per usual.